Join Jonathon Valentine, CIO & Co-founder, Thingco, Top 10 CIO UK 2023 Award Winner, as he discusses leadership, innovation, and understanding customer first to design frictionless tech for the end user.
00:00 100:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,360Welcome to CIO Leadership Live UK.200:00:02,360 --> 00:00:06,320I'm Lee Rennick, ExecutiveDirector of CIO Communities for CIO300:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,840and I'm very happy to welcomeJonathon Valentine, CTO of ThingCo.400:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,920Jonathon, please introduce yourselfand could you tell us a little bit500:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,720about your current role?I everyone I'm Johnny Valentine.600:00:15,720 --> 00:00:18,120I am the CIO and co-founder.700:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,760Thingco we are a800:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,600connected car data companyfocusing on the motor insurance sector900:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,640use in driving data to save lives and helppeople get cheap car insurance.1000:00:28,640 --> 00:00:30,640The very interesting business modelthat you have1100:00:30,640 --> 00:00:32,960and I'm really looking forwardto talking about it1200:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,240and I really appreciate youjoining us here today.1300:00:35,240 --> 00:00:35,760Jonathon.1400:00:35,760 --> 00:00:36,880We've created this series1500:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,800to support the senior technology leadersin their tech and leadership journey.1600:00:41,160 --> 00:00:44,360So the first question, and I ask everyonethis question,1700:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,200can you please tell us a little bitabout your own career path1800:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,840and provide some insightsor tips on that road path?1900:00:49,840 --> 00:00:51,720Are there any lessons learned? Yes.2000:00:51,720 --> 00:00:53,560So my background is a bit of a weird one.2100:00:53,560 --> 00:00:55,920I got involved building company companiesin a very young age.2200:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,960I started designing websitesfrom the age of ten, 11 commercially2300:00:59,960 --> 00:01:04,000from the age of 13,all because I saw some man rip off my Mum.2400:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,520And when he tried to sellsome of our website for a business.2500:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,040Unfortunately spending your teenage yearsat a computer2600:01:11,040 --> 00:01:15,960and made me hate the industryI never wanted use it for GCSCs2700:01:15,960 --> 00:01:18,920I didn't use it for A-levels.I wanted nothing to do with it.2800:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,280But like a boomerang, you end upjust going back to what you're good at2900:01:22,280 --> 00:01:24,000and what you're actually passionate about.3000:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,320I think I just got a bit burnt out.3100:01:26,320 --> 00:01:29,800I went to universitylike everyone does with no qualifications3200:01:29,800 --> 00:01:33,320purely off my portfolio,but left after a year for an opportunity3300:01:33,320 --> 00:01:36,320to go work for this new insurance companythat was coming soon3400:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,680where they needed a coming soon pagefor telematics motor insurance.3500:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,200No one had no idea what it was.3600:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,600So I went to go meetthese bunch of mavericks and took a punt3700:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,640and left universityto go become the Head of Web development3800:01:50,640 --> 00:01:55,280for Insure the Box which went on to sella million insurance policies in the UK3900:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,320being boughtbefore being bought by Amazon AD4000:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,200and that was as a 19 year old4100:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,440that was a crazy way to learn about IT and4200:02:06,480 --> 00:02:07,960technology leadership.4300:02:07,960 --> 00:02:12,920When you're watching these four leadersof insurance build a company from scratch4400:02:13,320 --> 00:02:17,000and spending millions and millionsbuilding this company4500:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,440from nothing to 400 peoplein a call center,4600:02:20,840 --> 00:02:25,960most offices in Gibraltar, London,Newcastle And I was extremely fortunate4700:02:25,960 --> 00:02:30,960to sit on the fringes of that and watchand just absorb and learn.4800:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,320And that's how I really got intoall this was I was just fascinated.4900:02:35,320 --> 00:02:40,080And you could by now and my blood istelematics and insurance and technology.5000:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,440I think myself as a techie, butI'm probably more of an insurance person5100:02:44,440 --> 00:02:46,760who's just good at techrather than the other way round.5200:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,160That's really interesting background.5300:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,040And I know when we spokeyou said you started at a very young age5400:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,040and you know, a lot of peopleget really motivated at young ages5500:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,560around like computer games and softwareand learning and all of that stuff.5600:02:57,560 --> 00:02:59,280And it seemsit seems like it really you know,5700:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,080you brought your career together that way,5800:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,440but as you said,really involved in the insurance sector.5900:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,560So that really segues very wellinto our next question, which is around6000:03:07,560 --> 00:03:08,760cross-sector learning.6100:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,800So a lot of the CIOs I speak withtalk about the opportunity to build6200:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,800skills and learn skillsworking across sectors.6300:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,080As mentioned, you started your careerin tech at a very young age6400:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,080and you really diversified your knowledgeto working in various sectors.6500:03:22,920 --> 00:03:25,440So I was wondering if you could providesome insights on this6600:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,440in relationto how cross-sector learning supported6700:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,840you building knowledgein your technology role?6800:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,080So at Insure the Boxwhat's my role was quite unique.6900:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,200And in fact I reported directly to the CEO and7000:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,640and my jobas Head of Innovation was purely to7100:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,000look atwhat was going on across the business7200:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,840and try to see how we could use technologyto solve a problem.7300:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,200And it didn't have to be AI,it didn't have be as something fancy.7400:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,200It was just how could we automatesomething that was a problem?7500:03:52,560 --> 00:03:57,320An example of that was we were in the pub onenight, at Insure the Box we had,7600:03:57,600 --> 00:03:58,320We went to the pub7700:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,080If it was a good day,7800:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,080things went well and if it was a bad day,we went to the pub to fix it.7900:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,880So some days we went twice a day.8000:04:05,880 --> 00:04:07,480and so we were in thereand they had a problem8100:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,200with the call center and the fact that thewait time was too long.8200:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,960We were we were getting very, very,very successful.8300:04:15,000 --> 00:04:20,040But the call center couldn't keepwith the call volume, I said, Why don't we do live chat8400:04:20,280 --> 00:04:21,680And it was 11:00 at night.8500:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,320And we went in what we call the director'scorner garden.8600:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,480And that was it.We went to a mindset to do it.8700:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,440And so 11:00 at night,I went back to the office8800:04:30,440 --> 00:04:31,880and we implemented live chat.8900:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,920We a we use live person solution.9000:04:34,920 --> 00:04:36,560There's no pointbuilding things from scratch9100:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,000when there is a solution out therealready made, you can plug in9200:04:39,000 --> 00:04:39,840and the next morning9300:04:39,840 --> 00:04:43,560the people in the operations call centergot an email saying, right where9400:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,960your log in details for live person,we're going to start taking live chats.9500:04:46,960 --> 00:04:48,240And we got it into the website.9600:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,480We saw a massive drop off in call volume.9700:04:51,480 --> 00:04:56,000We saw agents able to handlefive people instead of one phone call9800:04:56,640 --> 00:05:00,840and it was kind of been involvedin the listing into a problem9900:05:01,200 --> 00:05:06,480that a department had, that I was able to solve itand just some out of the box,10000:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,360not out of the box, but thinking about itfrom a non BAU perspective,10100:05:10,360 --> 00:05:11,880someone who was a teckie.10200:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,880And I think that's the wayI like to get involved in every department10300:05:14,960 --> 00:05:19,200and what they're doingbecause if you have worked in an industry10400:05:19,200 --> 00:05:20,960or done a job for 20 or 30 years,10500:05:20,960 --> 00:05:22,720you'll think thatthe only way you can do it10600:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,320when actually if you're using it,is slightly different, that you can now10700:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,200automate Google sheets.We can do that part of your job.10800:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,480But some peopleget quite protective because10900:05:31,760 --> 00:05:33,840they do a job for 8 hours a day11000:05:33,840 --> 00:05:38,640and some idiot move some youngand I'm not going to swear11100:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,640comes along and says we can automatethat part of your job.11200:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,560They're going tothey're going to be affronted.11300:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,160No, this is my job.11400:05:46,160 --> 00:05:47,400But actually, we need to go now.11500:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,200Let's let's sort out the bit you don't like11600:05:49,200 --> 00:05:49,800and let me11700:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,200spend more time in the bitthat we need you for which is your brain,11800:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,480which is your intelligence,your human aspect.11900:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,080And so that's all I did.12000:05:56,080 --> 00:06:00,400And suddenly that gives you the abilityto understand operations and understand the back12100:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,440end of how things workand whether it be on claimed back12200:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,000and it gave me a real incentive on12300:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,160How will work. But alsohow to approach people in terms of12400:06:09,800 --> 00:06:11,400if you tell someoneyou going to automate their job,12500:06:11,400 --> 00:06:13,200they respond to you saying, right,you'll get rid of me,12600:06:13,200 --> 00:06:14,440but now you want to automate12700:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,280all that stuff as much as possibleso that the humans can do the human work.12800:06:19,360 --> 00:06:20,640And that's why I think that12900:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,840being involved in getting involved inlooking at tickets, looking at all that kind of stuff13000:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,120gives you that ability to understandwhat's going on, on that on the floor13100:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,280so you can help. Right.13200:06:29,280 --> 00:06:32,280And so and in your case,I mean when we chatted13300:06:32,280 --> 00:06:35,640you've worked in various sectorsso really like you've been really in tune13400:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,880with what's happeningwith the customer journey and experience.13500:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,240And and I really wanted to talk aboutthat.13600:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,960I'm just around customercentric technology.13700:06:43,960 --> 00:06:48,120So, you know, a lot of the I was sittingon the roundtable, I tell the story a lot.13800:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,880We were talking about cloudand cloud implementation.13900:06:51,880 --> 00:06:56,160And one of the CIOs was there saying,you know, and, and the customer journey.14000:06:56,160 --> 00:06:57,480So those two together.14100:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,080And one CIO was sitting there saying,you know, the thing is, is that customers14200:07:01,080 --> 00:07:06,080now expect the Amazon experience. Which islike I order and the next day I get14300:07:06,640 --> 00:07:07,760I need. Right?14400:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,240So you and I talked about that.14500:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,720We discuss the ways you approachinnovation for the customer journey14600:07:13,520 --> 00:07:17,120and really how you're really buildingcustomer centric14700:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,280technology to ensure that the customer isthe most important part of your business.14800:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,600So could you talk a little bitabout the ways14900:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,400you do that in your technologyleadership role?15000:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,120I think the end user15100:07:28,320 --> 00:07:28,880is the most15200:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,920important person for usbecause if you think your car insurance15300:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,760is something that you legally have to haveand so you've been told to install15400:07:36,760 --> 00:07:38,880this deviceas part of your insurance policy15500:07:38,880 --> 00:07:40,560and you want to prove15600:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,160that you're the best possible driverto get cheaper car insurance15700:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,920and you might get frustratedbecause it's not representing you.15800:07:45,920 --> 00:07:47,880Maybe the fact that the speed limitis wrong on the road.15900:07:47,880 --> 00:07:49,920And so it penalized you.16000:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,520And so you've had to tell the insurance company.16100:07:52,520 --> 00:07:54,640That's speed limits wrong. It used to be a forty,16200:07:54,640 --> 00:07:59,760Now it's a 60. Because you wantcheaper car insurance and you want to prove16300:07:59,760 --> 00:08:04,320you're good driver. Andand so my view is I don't want to see an issue16400:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,400or we we go I go to the customeror I'll drop randomly to the customer16500:08:08,400 --> 00:08:13,440that did a ticket and we'll go see themwe'll talk to them and you learn so much16600:08:14,800 --> 00:08:16,600because they're on it.16700:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,120I've had peoplethat some really unhappy customers,16800:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,600whether it's for something reallyrandom maybe the app couldn't download16900:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,520from the App Store for that version,of the phone, really angry.17000:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,200And if someone sayswe don't get to see them.17100:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,200You go see them and suddenlyyou have to have a conversation17200:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,160with them. Others havetheir point of view on understanding.17300:08:33,160 --> 00:08:36,160And actually you learn a lotand they become testers of your product.17400:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,920So my biggest endorsers are peoplethat actually,17500:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,640I don't know, have the experienceswe spoke to and we understood.17600:08:42,640 --> 00:08:45,640And then suddenly theythey're testing out new features for us.17700:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,240They're coming up with ideas that textingto me on Saturday night at 10 p.m.17800:08:49,240 --> 00:08:53,240with an idea they've hadand suddenly we're now in a position where17900:08:54,400 --> 00:08:55,200you can turn that18000:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,200negativity into into a positive partof your business.18100:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,000We review tickets all the timebecause we don't even though18200:09:02,000 --> 00:09:03,760they're not our customers,the insurance companies,18300:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,920because I want that their brandsbe represented as well as possible,18400:09:07,920 --> 00:09:08,760every insurance company.18500:09:08,760 --> 00:09:09,320So we look18600:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,080at what people are talking about,what's there, and then we reflect on that.18700:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,080We're, right?What can we do to improve that?18800:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,160So it's always a cycle of learningwhat the customer wants, what their issue,18900:09:18,600 --> 00:09:19,760the fact that there is right,19000:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,240there's a wide screen some about thatperson looking at yeah let's look at19100:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,360it was a different the speed and speedlimits is one that really19200:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,800and resonates with me.Because it's not fair for someone19300:09:29,800 --> 00:09:31,320to be threateningto have their insurance canceled19400:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,320because they did somethingnaughty on the roads.19500:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,480What actually wasn't their fault at all,that the data was invalid19600:09:37,920 --> 00:09:39,840and when we're working with third parties,you need to.19700:09:39,840 --> 00:09:41,200So for me to right,19800:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,160hold off third parties to account, togo, look,19900:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,000this customer's had a really badexperience.20000:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,080They've been told by their insurancecompany they're going to get canceled20100:09:47,080 --> 00:09:49,320if they drive at the speed againon this road.20200:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,120But the road allows the speedlimit is incorrect.20300:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,080You still have a datathat this customer is going to20400:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,400that's going to be financiallyimpacting them for years.20500:09:57,400 --> 00:10:01,840And so I think for us, because we're,we can have such a big impact on someone's20600:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,840financial life in terms of thatwill cost them more in the future.20700:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,680Our suppliers have to realize as wellthat we're customer centric and it almosts20800:10:08,680 --> 00:10:11,640drags them into a journey as wellbecause they need to be.20900:10:11,640 --> 00:10:13,320But I thinkwhen you're talking about that,21000:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,320I know we didn't talk about this question,but it really21100:10:15,320 --> 00:10:19,760it says to me that you, as a serviceprovider tech, not tech aspect of that21200:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,880your customer, the insurance companies,is that you're really ensuring that21300:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,240what they're producing,how they're approaching their business21400:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,080with their customers,will be really successful.21500:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,680So it must be extremely,extremely valuable.21600:10:31,680 --> 00:10:32,520The work that you're doing21700:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,000with the insurance companiesat such a granular level for them,21800:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,040because I know many large companiesare looking at focus groups and,21900:10:39,360 --> 00:10:42,200you know, user testingand all of that stuff in, in a way,22000:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,160you're you're working with the clientsdirectly on the ground22100:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,320to talk about ways in which to improvethat user and user experience.22200:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,360So I think that's that's phenomenal.22300:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,680I mean, it must be extremely rewarding.22400:10:52,680 --> 00:10:55,720I think so, yeah. So we start off as B2B.22500:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,440And when you say B2B22600:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,440customers, you're dealing with businessesand you're a service provider.22700:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,000I heard the term is that I on Twitterand I really like it.22800:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,360It was a it was a vertical SASand I quite like that because22900:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,880it's our device,our hardware, it's our firmware23000:11:10,880 --> 00:11:12,920and we do everythingall the way through the white label23100:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,240apps that are used bythe customers are provided by us.23200:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,320So it's almost like we providean entire solution out of the box.23300:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,080And I like that.23400:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,120And I wouldn't do it any other waybecause we tried to in B2B at first23500:11:23,120 --> 00:11:24,600without talking to the customer.23600:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,600And the insurers do a really similar the23700:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,120the job wasn't done properly,the data wasn't used properly,23800:11:31,120 --> 00:11:32,680which means that it's a bad experiencefor insurance23900:11:32,680 --> 00:11:35,080companies,a bad experience for the end user.24000:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,040Who is the personwho's got this device in the car.24100:11:37,040 --> 00:11:37,800They've got the app24200:11:37,800 --> 00:11:38,640and they're the ones24300:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,640who are going to get cheaper,or more expensive car insurance.24400:11:41,760 --> 00:11:43,160So that's where we took the decision24500:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,960look, let's bring it in-house,let's do everything.24600:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,600The insurergets a better experience24700:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,520and I can be more confortable at night knowingthat data is being used properly24800:11:52,720 --> 00:11:53,240because if the24900:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,240data not being used properly, thenit's just a very expensive paperweight.25000:11:56,400 --> 00:11:57,600Yeah, I know. That's amazing.25100:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,880It must be very, like I said,very rewarding.25200:11:59,880 --> 00:12:00,240All right.25300:12:00,240 --> 00:12:01,960So now we're25400:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,240you are talking about data,and I wanted to talk a little bit25500:12:04,240 --> 00:12:05,160more about innovation.25600:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,160So, I mean, obviously,since last November,25700:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,320the world has transformed a little bittechnologically with Gen25800:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,400AI and large language models,you know, so prevalent in discussions25900:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,640right now around innovationand data and cloud and everything.26000:12:17,640 --> 00:12:21,720So could you share your views on GenAI and LLMs and perhaps26100:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,960some of the ways you're looking to deployor what you're seeing in market?26200:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,840Oh, it's good to see.26300:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,120It's going to change everything at some level.We'll insurance for a second and26400:12:32,120 --> 00:12:36,360we'll focus on, I think, and obviouslythat's a whole talk about ChatGPT got dumber, all the things26500:12:36,360 --> 00:12:40,240you've got done there and all thesegoing on like that. Overall is amazing.26600:12:40,280 --> 00:12:44,280And I bought the API access soonfor the business, as soon as we could26700:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,000because we could start.26800:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,000We've got a lot of datausing an insurance policy normally26900:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,160just like one row an Excel spreadsheet,we capture 9000 bits a day for a second.27000:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,920The average person does 21 minute tripsthree times a day.27100:12:57,040 --> 00:12:58,400That adds up to a lot of data.27200:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,480We've got and obviously tryingto turn that into value.27300:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,040There's a there's a lot of valuethat can be generated out of data27400:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,320without the need for machinelearning models.27500:13:07,320 --> 00:13:09,880And I thinksometimes you can jump to using AI,27600:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,880when actually there's a lot more valuethat can be got out of something27700:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,880with some intelligent thinkingand some common sense.27800:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,120But it does have its place.27900:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,040And wherenow the plug ins, for example,28000:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,000that you can plug in to TripAdvisoror you can last minute28100:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,640and you can actually have it plan a tripfor you and is actually incredible.28200:13:27,680 --> 00:13:30,840Insurance is a difficult one, though,because it's a regulated market.28300:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,600And if you're saying, rightLee your your insurance28400:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,920premium is £1,000 and mine is £2,000.28500:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,400We should have the right to understandwhy why that premium is up.28600:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,280And no one wants to hear thatbecause the black box said that28700:13:45,560 --> 00:13:48,240this is some algorithmthat we can't understand28800:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,680because it is said thatyours is a thousand and mines 2000,28900:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,080because that's not fair on individuals,because so insurance29000:13:56,080 --> 00:13:57,960has got a difficult thing to play.29100:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,960It can be really helpfulfor, let's say, counter fraud29200:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,160or claims or thingswhere you're trying to find patterns.29300:14:04,560 --> 00:14:07,560But I think one area that doesis that we need to make sure that we don't29400:14:07,680 --> 00:14:09,240use this to29500:14:10,560 --> 00:14:12,560penalizeindividuals because what will happen29600:14:12,560 --> 00:14:15,960if you think, people who payfor their car insurance monthly29700:14:16,560 --> 00:14:19,560are deemed to be a higher rate than peoplewho pay for the car insurance annually.29800:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,080But people who pay for the carinsurance monthly tend to be less well off29900:14:23,080 --> 00:14:24,840and people pay annually,you know. Like it's30000:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,480the same as people are going to do foodshopping five times30100:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,480a week are higher risk than peoplewho go food shopping once a week.30200:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,720Well,suddenly a model is going to look at that30300:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,480and it's going to penalize those people.30400:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,600But suddenly all we're doingis penalizing the less well-off.30500:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,720And we've created as a30600:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,000regulator, regulations going to bereally interesting in this sector.30700:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,000I know there's quite a few peoplelooking at looking at it.30800:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,080Insurance in the UK have got quite a fewmembers in that space, but30900:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,960I'm really excited to see where it goes,But that just needs to be31000:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,160some I think regulation aroundthe financial aspects of it.31100:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,160Where it's impacting people's premiumsand their financial activity.31200:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,520Personally like we love it, I think,and then we've got, for example,31300:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,520we're now scanning news articlesacross the entire web.31400:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,040We're going to work outright have there been any car accidents,31500:15:09,040 --> 00:15:11,200what type of vehicles are involved,where did that occur,31600:15:11,200 --> 00:15:14,360and look at our database, if we hadany people nearby at that point in time.31700:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,680So there are quite a few bitsthat I can't mention that we do.31800:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,320but it's going to change the way we work.31900:15:20,320 --> 00:15:21,840But I don't think it'sgoing to get rid of engineers.32000:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,720I don't think it's going to get ridof developers or anything like that.32100:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,280It's just going to make our life easier.32200:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,080You look at GitHub, Copilot.32300:15:28,080 --> 00:15:32,400A prime example of that is just helpingdevelopers do their job more efficiently.32400:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,960Like I spoke about earlier, automatingthe process so humans can do the human stuff.32500:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,520And you know, that's you're saying thisand this is our last question.32600:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,520But you know,I just think that when you talked about32700:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,800Thingco of being a vertical SaaS,I'm sure, you know, when you're primarily32800:15:46,800 --> 00:15:47,760focused on insurance. Right.32900:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,800But I think of Gen AI andLLMs will probably maybe transform,33000:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,160which, you know, companies you work within which sectors you work in.33100:15:55,160 --> 00:15:56,640Right. As a business.33200:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,440Yeah, I think it's going to havea massive impact on what we can do to date33300:15:59,440 --> 00:16:00,760and start looking at the data.33400:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,320So now we're absorbingdata from third party sources.33500:16:03,320 --> 00:16:04,800We would never absorb data from before,33600:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,960but from models we want to use beforeit's make it.33700:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,120If it's going to help usbecome more intelligent in what we do.33800:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,640Because humans can only go so far.33900:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,520Go so far, models can only get you so far.34000:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,520But now these new modelswill allow us to do a lot more.34100:16:20,520 --> 00:16:22,520But it's very early days.We are not experts.34200:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,520We are pure, just admirers and users34300:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,200and we're only justscratching the surface.34400:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,320But I'm excited to see what more isgiven to us.34500:16:30,320 --> 00:16:32,760That's awesome. Well,that's a great way to end this interview.34600:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,800Thank you so much very much, Jonathon,for joining us today.34700:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,440I really appreciate it now.34800:16:38,440 --> 00:16:39,640Thanks for having me. Really enjoyed it.